Who Was Sahleem Tindle?
An Interview of Yolanda Banks Reed, mother of Sahleem Tindle

by Cat Brooks

Sahleem Tindle, 28, was a beloved father of two, son, brother, nephew, companion, and so much more. On January 3rd, 2018, Sahleem was shot in the back three times by BART police officer Joseph Mateu. Below find a transcript of an interview APTP Co-founder Cat Brooks conducted with his mother, Yolanda Banks Reed, on KPFA’s UpFront on February 20th, 2018.

Cat:                        Thank you for being here.

Yolanda:          Thank you for having me.

Cat:                        First of all, I am so sorry for your loss.

Yolanda:          Thank you.

Cat:        And I know that sorry comes nowhere to cutting it. Unfortunately, that’s all I have in this moment. When the state kills our loved ones, the very first thing they do is demonize them, right? Every single time.
Yolanda:          Yes, that’s correct.

Cat:                        So I want, in your words, as his mother, to tell us who Sahleem was.

Yolanda:          Well, my son, Sahleem Ohsehee Tindle—his name, Sahleem, means peace; Ohsehee mean noble. My son was an honorable and worthy young man, and such a great help to the family. You know, when you have a son or a daughter, they are a contribution to the family—to be able to assist the mother, the sisters, the brothers—and this is how I raised my son Sahleem to be: in assistance not only to me but to others. And that’s why he was a father to his children, a companion to his companion, and a son to his mother and his father. He was an artist. Me and him—we would sit there and do art for hours, and he was very creative with his hands. You know, I live on a ranch and—I’m a little country, and a little city—and so was he. And we would spend time, you know—‘Mom, you need a chicken coop for these chickens. You need to put these chickens somewhere—they’re running around.’ And he helped me build a chicken coop, and he helped me in so many ways—he was just a great, great young man. And society will always demonize our children—our African American male, commonly called—but as we know, they’re ancient Hebrews, kings and queens of Africa, Yoruba, and many places—all over the world, we are scattered. And we are still scattered in our mind and our souls, and are unifying—to come together, solidarity, to be a whole nation—and this is not what society is looking for. Oh, it was really heartbreaking, and… Words cannot express what I felt…

Cat:                        Take your time.

Yolanda:          …when I received the news that my son had been shot and killed… You know, I’ve always been there for mothers, and—mothers who have lost their children to violence, whether it was by the hands of police or the hands of each other—I’ve always been their system, and now the shoe is on the other foot, and it’s horrifying; it’s soul-crushing; it’s—words cannot express what a mother feel… And to know that his children have lost their father, is a sad thing, because these children are without fathers now. And my son was there for his two children—and he had been there from the day that they were born for his children. 
 
Hearing the reports from the reporters—you know, conflicting stories—contradicting everything that I end up seeing for myself from the body cam of officer Joseph Mateu. They had stated that my son had a gun in his hand and did not comply with the police, and so, in turn, the police shot him. When in fact that was not the truth. February the 7th, we went to West Oakland police station—myself and my attorney, John Burris, family attorney—we went in and we were able to view the body cam of officer Joseph Mateu, and what was revealed was, my son’s back was turned to the officer, hands in the air. He was in a scuffle—him and another man that was around I think 40 years old. And the officer came running with hands drawn, gun in his hand: ‘Put your hands up. Put your hands up.’ They were wrestling… He never identified himself—he never said, ‘Police.’ See, it’s a difference when you say, ‘Put your hands up’—there’s so much commotion going on. But if you would’ve said, ‘Police’—then that would’ve caught their attention. He said, ‘Put your hands up. Put your hands up,’ and they were still fighting. And then, finally, my son broke loose from the tussle that he was in, and during that time he had his hands up in the air, back turned to officer Joseph Mateu, and he let off three shots—pow, pow, pow—killing him. And as he went down, he still had his hands up, and that is what the cam reveals. 
 
And as I told the reporters, you’re given a job, you’re given an opportunity—you come in, you swear an oath that you will speak the truth, you will look for the truth. Well, channel 7 came in to interview me at my sister’s house in Oakland, and she said, ‘Tell me something about your son. Tell me the things that he enjoyed doing. Tell me what happened January the 3rd, 2018.’ I told her. I told her that the police should be held accountable. I also told her that they have protocol, there’s fundamental principles. There is no order where there is no order. There’s no, no… There’s chaos.

And so, what she reported was, me wiping my eyes when I got emotional. And at the protest, I was upset, because—everything that I had said and all the questions you asked me, you’re going to report me wiping my eyes? That’s the only thing that you would show of a mother—wiping her eyes? Of course I was sad, but I said so much more that needed to be said, that was not reported. And she asked me, could she have another interview. And I said, ‘Did you record the protest, which was cultural, which was indigenous?’ I said, ‘Did you record that?’ She said, ‘Yes.’ I said, ‘Well, report that.’ I said, ‘And then we could talk.’

But, you know, you have these reporters that do their reporting and they’re not seeking the truth—they’re not what they used to be. They’re not seeking the truth, the facts of the matter; they’re just there, as they say—fake news. Because if you’re not telling the truth about the matter, or seeking to find the truth—it says, ‘Seek and ye shall find’—then it’s fake news. And that’s what I told them: I said, ‘If you’re not seeking to find the truth, then it’s fake news.’ And I told them that I was appreciative for them being there, but if they’re not going to report the truth, then what’s the point?

And I’m so happy that I can be here today with you, to tell his story, to tell my story, to tell all these mothers’ story… These mothers are suffering; they’re losing their children. And one by one—they talk about Christ being crucified—our children are being crucified every day. And they don’t have no understanding… When you lose your culture, your language, your classification, your identification, you don’t know who you are, and you’re wandering around—and you’re looking for some solidarity, you’re looking for some truth, you’re looking for some understanding. And being immature—if someone mature doesn’t give it to you, then you’re without it. I see these mothers—they’re suffering, and they don’t have a voice—someone need to speak for them. The children are not having their rite of passage, which is needed. They’re running to death—all the funerals—it have become a party; it have become a way of life. And we are to live in life more abundantly. We are to live our life in an abundant way. We are supposed to see our children grow up, and our grandchildren grow up…and be able to live a life like the Caucasian and the Gentiles and the Chinese and the Jewish and all these other races of people that live a happy life. Why do our children have to suffer?

And they’re being killed in Oakland area, San Francisco, disenfranchised communities—this is where they’re being affected by low income, poverty, below the poverty line… Our children—they deserve so much more. You know, and it’s up to our parents—the mothers and the fathers—to give them what they have. And what you don’t have, if you don’t have it to offer, is so many brothers and sisters that have a raised consciousness, a mind to say your children need to be involved in this. You know, my son would help his brother, Karim ‘Hard Hitta’ Mayfield—he’s a professional boxer—he would go and help him spar and get ready for a big fight. He would help me every Black History Month—and even after Black History, ’cause it’s not just one month—I would put on a show, all in San Francisco: Harriet Tubman, Sojourner Truth, and other races of people—Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Susan B. Anthony—all those that have contributed to our society and the well-being of people, humanity, itself. My son would set the stage for me. It was so many things that he did for me, and it’s such a great loss—it’s a great loss to me; it’s a great loss to his family and his children.

And Joseph Mateu, the police that murdered my son, shot him in the back three times—he’s a coward. Any time you shoot a man in the back, any race of people would tell you, ‘Well, that’s a coward.’ Well, what was he? He was a coward. And they are going on shooting African American males, and females now—they don’t even have respect for them—killing them, dead.

And I’m just, I’m saddened. I’m saddened and—you know, I have to live with this; I have to live with this… But while living with it, I’m going to fight! I’m not going to sit here—I’m, I’m hurt; I’m devastated, but I’m just not going to cry. I’m going to do something about it; I’m going to do what need to be done, with every breath that’s in me. I’m going to do what need to be done, because I’m not going to take this lying down. I love my son, and my children, and my nation of people, just like they love theirs.

You know, officer Joseph Mateu’s first cousin—her name is Martha—I met her many years ago; she was a friend to my sister, my youngest sister. She called my sister and she said, ‘I am so sorry about what happened,’ and she was crying so hard. She said, ‘I’m sorry, but I have to tell you—that was my cousin, my mother’s brother’s son.’ She said, ‘And I’ll tell you this—he was a racist. His father was a racist, and he was a former employee of BART.’ So it runs in the bloodline that he was a racist. And this came from the horse’s mouth—someone in his family. And she is willing to speak to Mr. John Burris. And I’m thankful for that. And I’m thankful for her to be able to stand and speak up for her—this is a blessing for her, to speak up for her own family—the truth within her line, because her family member murdered my son. And it’s meant for her to speak up, ’cause somebody got to speak up and speak the truth. Our people are walking around so afraid to speak the truth. Well, I’m not afraid to speak the truth. It’s high time that these men and women step up to the plate.

Cat:                    You are listening to UpFront. I am Cat Brooks, in conversation with Yolanda Banks Reed, who is the mother of Sahleem Tindle, who was murdered by BART police officer Joseph Mateu. So, Joseph Mateu, from what I understand, was across the street. Sahleem and the other gentleman were closer to 7th and [Chester streets]. So he had to run from the BART—he left BART property to engage your son and the other young man, correct?

Yolanda:          That is correct—he was inside of BART station, giving a citation to a woman that lived in Arizona, and he ran out. He ran out of the BART station with his gun drawn, saying, ‘Where? Where? Where?’

Cat:        And this is with other people around. He’s running through the streets with a gun in his hand.

Yolanda:          Exactly—he was running with a gun in his hand, saying, ‘Where? Where? Where?’ He ran across the street, 7th and Chester, where my son and the other guy was in a heated altercation, wrestling. And, and as I said, my son—as they were fighting, he said, ‘Hands up. Hands up,’ but he never, at no time, identified himself as a police officer. And as my son broke loose from the headlock that he was in, his hands were high in the air, unarmed—he had no gun in his hand, contrary to what, the reports of the media. He had no gun in his hand. And when he shot him—officer Joseph Mateu—he shot three times. My son went down. When he went down, he went down with his hands up in the air… And when he was on the ground, his hands were still in the air. Because the officer was saying, after shooting him, ‘Hands in the air. Hands up in the air. Show your hands.’

Cat:         I read an article this morning, as I was preparing to talk to you, and it was an interview with John Burris, and in the article, John Burris did not dispute that there was a gun present.

Yolanda:          No, he did not dispute. My son was far away from it.

Cat:                        Right. No, I’m not justifying, sister. I’m—what I’m leading to is…

Yolanda:          No, I understand, I understand. And I’m not here to leave anything out.

Cat:        I’m shutting down the folks, right? I want to preempt other folks, right? It’s not that we’re questioning whether or not brother Sahleem had a gun, or that the gun was fired. But at the time that the police officer—that the BART police officer—showed up, that gun was nowhere near him, it was not in his hands, and that officer was under no immediate threat, correct?

Yolanda:          Yes. He was under no immediate threat. Neither was the other guy, and the gun—they don’t know who the gun belonged to.

Cat:                        Okay.

Yolanda:          Because the guy was there, and it was closer to him, and they don’t know who the gun belonged to.

Cat:                        Okay.

Yolanda:          He went in, and then when my son got up, there was no threat. When he raised his hands, and unarmed, there was no threat. There was no threat to officer Mateu.

Cat:        And I don’t even think, you know, that there’s a conversation to be had—well, there’s a conversation that some people have demonizing our young men for carrying guns. But to your point earlier, they’re walking through war zones.

Yolanda:          They’re walking through a war zone, and, you know, they’re walking in fear. Because anytime that you are an African American male, or a female, it’s like a threat. They feel like we are a threat to them when actually it’s the opposite. You know, when we are in our car, and we’re driving and we get pulled over—I certainly say, have all your credentials in order, because we do live under a law—but at the same time, if you’re living under fear that if you move your hand or scratch your head, you could be shot and killed—we have seen this so often, too many times: that ‘Oh, we thought it was a gun. Oh, we thought he was reaching for something. We thought, we thought...’ And another thing that I want to point on, is that—how is this man on duty right now, working for BART? Have there been an evaluation? Have there been a psychiatric evaluation taken? And I’m asking this question because, how do you let someone go back into the work force, where you have public people taking public transportation—commuters going back and forth, young people—how do you let this man out there again so soon? How is that?

Cat:                        So he’s back at work?

Yolanda:          He’s back at work. Yet they tell me they’re doing an ongoing investigation. How is he back at work? That part I don’t understand.

Cat:        And that’s different protocol from what I understand, even with the Oakland police department—normally they’re off—they get a paid vacation, essentially; they’re on paid administrative leave throughout the investigation. And anybody would tell you that—well, for normal folk—if you take somebody’s life, you’re distraught; your mental state is not okay.

Yolanda:          You’re distraught—yes.

Cat:                        But he’s back on the force.

Yolanda:          That’s what I’ve read.

Cat:         I think we should be clear, too, that he was murdered by a BART police officer, but the Oakland police department is who is investigating.

Yolanda:          The Oakland police department are the ones that are doing the investigation.

Cat:                        And how are they treating you?

Yolanda:          Well, they say…they’re saying it’s an ongoing investigation. And I’m requesting that the video footage, the cam footage from officer Joseph Mateu’s body cam, be shown to the people and let them be the judge of themselves—let them see it for themselves. Testify what you see with your own eyes—not hearsay, but testify what you see with your own eyes. And then you will clearly see, if you see the body cam, that my son had no gun in his hand, unarmed, hands up, shot in the back; his back was towards officer Mateu when he left off three rounds in his back.

Cat:        So one demand that the family has is to release the body cam. Are there other demands that you have at this time?

Yolanda:          It’s a conviction. To be able to have this man behind bars. Because he do it once—he did it once, he will do it again. I’d like to know what his record is. I’d like to know if he’s on paperwork. I’d like to know—everything that they’re asking me about my son’s life; I haven’t seen any reports about this man. They’re hiding him. And it’s what lies beneath the surface. Everything is what lies beneath the surface. You know… When you have someone to cover up everything that you do and say, and the media can’t speak to him—show his face, ask him questions as to what happened—he was the one involved. My son can’t tell his story. I have to tell his story. Mr. John Burris our attorney have to tell his story. But Joseph Mateu, the officer, is still living. I don’t see anyone telling his story. And I gave the reporter the information about Joseph’s family member—that stated that officer Joseph Mateu was a racist, and his father was a racist before him. I said, ‘I give you this information providing you’re going to seek, as a journalist should do, seek it out—seek out the information.’ I said, ‘And this is the reason why I give it to you. But if you’re not going to do anything with it, what’s the point of me giving it to you?’

Cat:        What about the other man involved? Do you know who he is? Has he come forward, made a statement—anything?
Yolanda:          They haven’t reported his name or anything. No, I don’t know his name. I don’t know anything about him. They haven’t had any reporters speak to him. So, no, I haven’t—I don’t know anything about him.

Cat:        If you could say something, right now—if Joseph Mateu was sitting in this room, right now—what would you say to him?

Yolanda:          I would say that—being the mother that have carried Sahleem Tindle—‘I convict you. My ancestors convict you. You are guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty.’ That’s what I say to him.

Cat:                        Is there anything else you would like to add?

Yolanda:          Get a hold of your family. Love your children. Talk to your children. Embrace your children. As my son would say—he would say—Sahleem Tindle would say, ‘Monitor where you’re going, because it’s easy nowadays to be snuffed out.’ That’s something that he would say. And he would say that to his cousin: ‘Beware. Monitor where you’re going, because people is crazy nowadays.’ You know, my son—he loved people. He loved people. He loved children. And he loved his family. And I’m going to miss him. I’m going to miss him so much, and…I’m going to miss the times that we have had, just spending together. And him—‘Mom, I’m not hungry,’ and then at night, the whole pot of food is gone. I go, ‘What happened to the food?’ And he’s like, ‘Oh, mom, that food was good.’ And I’m going to miss so many things about him, and how much a great help he was to his family, and, you know—Joseph Mateu is still living. And as I’ve read, he’s working—he’s back, active duty. And it’s just a sad thing.